The State of Mind Podcast w/ Julian Royce, MA, LPCC

Welcome to a state of mind. This is Julian Royce.

First a little housekeeping and some updates on recent episodes, and if you would like to skip ahead to my conversation with Dr. Janelle Kim that begins right around the seventh-minute mark.

So, the video version on YouTube of our episode with Derek Demuth the musician it featured in full one of his amazing music videos and it was his version of the song Hotel California, and as we talked about in that episode you know this was a very original version. He put it in a different key with a different tempo it’s just him playing guitar and percussion on his guitar like he demonstrated for us but when he put up that music video it got banned from YouTube for a copyright dispute. I’m happy to report that the video that is a part of the, you know podcast episode, has made it past the YouTube sensors so you can now go and see the full video there if you want to. So, I’m happy about that.

Then the most recent episode which was titled shadow sides of Naropa University, I just wanted to say I really feel like this just touched on the tip of the iceberg here and I did hear from several listeners several of you about it so thank you for that. I heard from a former faculty member who recently resigned and he told me that he understood everything I was talking about in the intro it totally made sense to him and he appreciated me sharing my thoughts there and talking about this stuff and it was part of the reason why he resigned.

Another person reached out to me they were a former student at Naropa University they were an undergrad there and they told me the story of going to class and the teacher telling them that quote “your ancestors are responsible for all that’s wrong with the world,” I mean wow and then they divided up the classroom between men and women put them in two groups and proceeded to only teach the woman and the men had to kind of sit outside and like observe or whatever. It’s an amazing story one of the more extreme stories I’ve heard from Naropa you know I’ve heard a lot of stories at this point. Again, I may do another episode or more on this topic I don’t want to spend a ton of time on it today but just want to yeah, I mean it’s an amazing story and I’m sure this is a life experience he will never forget and also not what he was looking for in his education. I mean whether you agree with this teacher or not I think it’s unethical to do that and treat someone that way and it’s certainly non-consensual and it’s not you know not what they were wanting in their education and when you consider the fact, they are paying up to $4,000 for that class and to be told that and treated that way and it’s just ridiculous. Yeah, I mean again like as I said before these issues of race and racism and all the social justice issues, they’re so important and they deserve to be talked about and treated you know seriously. In my opinion like overly simplistic explanations like that um you know shaming people guilting people like it’s not helpful it’s also not really true I think I think having open honest vulnerable discussions about these kinds of issues one in which you’re curious about other people and their experience ones in which everyone’s treated with dignity and respect and understanding you know one where you look at relevant history and reading materials and you can bring them in you know all that would be appropriate in a college classroom.

So, I mean thinking about this particular story for example how does this teacher even know whose ancestors are without asking him. You know as I shared in the last episode I had family members who were killed you know tragically in the holocaust it was terrible um but you would never know that without me sharing that with you without talking with me but without me talking to you about it and then obviously a statement like that is a massive over-generalization oversimplification it’s one thing to recognize and discuss histories of racism and colonialism but presumably the seizures referring to you know Western Europe if we look at the history of Western Europe it’s very complex and multifaceted. You know for example suppose this student had ancestors who were Irish do we want to talk about the English oppressing Irish in the past or do we want to wind the clock back even further when the Roman empire came in and brutally suppressed the Celtic people and the Druids and all that. Maybe those are some of his ancestors do we want to look at you know the god of the Old Testament who basically told the tribes of ancient Israel to commit genocide and this horrible stuff you know Genghis Khan et cetera et cetera, you could just go on and on I mean it’s the ongoing right now in today’s world the genocide of the Tibetan and the Uyghur people being carried out by the Chinese government is that the fault of this student’s ancestors. It’s absurd it’s ridiculous. So, I really, I just can’t believe that this kind of thing would be said and then set in an atmosphere in which debate and discussion are discouraged or not allowed or felt like it’s not okay then the other thing I was thinking about um and something I’ve reflected on a lot you know if there’s one thing, I’ve learned in studying history and it’s true not just of nations, and you know cultures but also of individuals and families and smaller communities. It’s that these cycles of Oppression and violence and trauma they never end through seeking revenge and vengeance, instead they stop through stopping. The only thing that stops these cycles is just stopping like quit put down the arms stop the fight stop carrying out violence, you know two wrongs don’t make it right as the old saying goes and there’s actually a lot to that. So, I’m gonna take a deep breath I’m gonna leave all this here I may or may not come back to this particular topic in future podcast episodes it has been suggested to me to do a whole series around this issue of Naropa University but I don’t know if I will.

So now I want to transition to today’s episode which is a great one had a great conversation it’s not directly about these topics but it’s not totally unrelated either. Today, I’m speaking with Dr. Janelle Kim and she is the author of a new book called Myung Sung the Korean art of living meditation. I apologize if I’m not pronouncing that correctly, this is a really charming beautiful book with a lot of wisdom and personal stories and stories from her family. Dr. Kim is a fully trained Korean medical doctor and she comes from a family lineage of such doctors. In fact, she’s the ninth generation in her family to practice Korean medicine. In our conversation, she shares with us about the three m’s of meditation, movement, and medicine and how they’re all interconnected and all essential pillars of our health and well-being. We mostly talked about meditation and that’s the main subject of her book that’s coming out so keep your eyes out for that book check out the links in the show notes below as always please support this podcast via the patron account thank you so much for listening and without further ado, I bring you, Dr. Janelle Kim.

Julian Royce: So, I’m here today with Dr. Janelle Kim, thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Dr. Kim: I’m so happy to be here Julian, thank you for having me.

Julian Royce: Yeah, this is great I’m glad we connected and I’ve been reading your book, and tell me if I’m mispronouncing this but Myung Sung the Korean art of living meditation.

Dr. Kim: It sounds good to me I would say Myung Sung, but that was pretty, pretty accurate you know the more times I hear the difference but yes, it’s Myung Sung the Korean art of living meditation which is pretty key there the living meditation part.

Julian Royce: Yeah, I want to talk more about that with you. Just want to take a moment and introduce yourself and share about your background a bit.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely so my name is Dr. Janelle Kim. My background so I will often say which is the absolute truth that I pretty much walked into this world; you know came into this world. In some way shape or form doing exactly what I’m doing right now it doesn’t mean I knew it from the start I was in my early adulthood when I realized that I wanted to devote my life I committed myself to really sharing all that has been passed down through my lineage. So, I come from a lineage of what I say masters’, doctors you know scholars. If well who have who have dedicated their lives to understanding the human conditions to understanding nature around us how everything kind of comes together and have passed that on for centuries really. I’m the ninth generation, so I’m a ninth-generation herbologist and doctor.

Julian Royce: That’s so amazing.

Dr. Kim: Yeah, thank you, Julian. It means a lot to me as well you know and being able to share that means so much. So, I have really focused the first, the last 20 years, let’s say, which I can’t even believe I can say that. For the last 20 years, I’ve really focused on the medical aspect, I call it the three m’s that I really wish to share with the world which are medicine, movement, and meditation which is basically the philosophy part that we’ll talk about today. So I’ve really spent most of my adult life thus far focusing on the medicine aspect so I have a manufacturing lab here in the United States and in Europe where we manufacture everything from skincare to dietary supplements, nutraceuticals, muscle joint formulas and it’s all based on the herbal medicine that’s been passed down my lineage, and so it’s I’m really excited that now you know I’ve been working on this book for honestly I’d say about 10 years with my mentor, right but really focused the last five years and especially the last two years where I’m so grateful to have found my publisher Watkins Penguin Random House and so I’m really happy to be sharing this aspect of the three m’s or the three pillars.

Julian Royce: Yeah, congratulations on your book and I think it’s wonderful. I guess I wanted to highlight the fact that your ninth generation would it be accurate to say Korean medicine like traditional.

Dr. Kim: I would say so, yes.

Julian Royce: I mean I’m someone who, you know I have a master’s in religious studies as well as in psychology and so I’ve studied like religion and like different cultures have always fascinated me.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: There’s this big you know kind of thing that we all hear east versus west maybe universes isn’t the right but east and west and I think you know there’s truth to that we can generalize I think for a lot of people it’s in some ways more accurate to talk about contemporary or modern life versus pre-modern life.

Dr. Kim: I love that.

Julian Royce: You know I mean in Europe too like if you went back 100, 200 years there would be families that would be physicians for example, or you know shoemakers whatever it is like the traits would be passed on through the family and now it’s it just feels so rare to meet someone who knows what they’re great. At least in this country America great grandfather was doing let alone great, great-grandfather let alone nine you know nine generations so I just appreciate that and I think it’s um something that we’ve lost touch with many of us our ancestry our you know what our you know ancestors were doing.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely Julian, that’s so beautifully put and something so important to me that I don’t always talk about it’s not always the topic that comes up and I love actually that you started there. The east-west part that you started with. I think it was an accident that you said east versus west, not to say that that’s such a; I certainly have not looked at that my time here on earth you know, but something that maybe not everyone knows about me, I should have shared in the beginning, is that I am east literally a walking example of east and west. I say that because my father was Korean my mother’s American so right there, even to this day I don’t think that’s very common I’ll go out and just probably, uh I don’t think I’m, I don’t think I’m incorrect in saying that’s still right. It’s still kind of an interesting thing for an Asian Korean man to marry you know, my blonde-haired, brown-eyed, beautiful American mom. So, I believe that that happened for a reason, you know and it is very much like; you said whether it’s east-west why can’t we pretty much everything I ever talk about what I feel very passionate about is why can’t we all look at the fact that it all comes from a certain route right. And, if you look at it that way, why can’t we look even medicine is a great one that I get asked all the time. We certainly don’t have to stick to the details but understanding eastern medicine versus western medicine right that word a lot and I think people often even when it comes to that part of my world, our world, people will be surprised to hear that I’m actually for both; you know there are so many, so many amazing things about eastern medicine, eastern philosophy. Some of the amazing things about western medicine philosophy and I love how you put it the ancient and the modern, right, so no matter how you look at it; why can’t we take everything that is out there maybe not everything but be aware of everything and then make that understanding make that choice for ourselves because why wouldn’t we utilize the incredible advancements? For example, of western medicine, medicine their technology what they’ve come to find same with philosophy you know and why can’t we combine that and know when to use one and when to use another and so I love that you start that way that’s what it’s all about as far as I’m concerned and you don’t hear it very often especially in the culture right so, yeah.

Julian Royce: Yeah. And that I, I like it’s, instead of the word versus we could say; I like saying both ends.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: A lot of times when I work with a client like in, in psychotherapy it’s there’s some issue and it’s you know this thing over here versus this thing and which way do I go and it’s often that both ends.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: It could be, for example, I really love and appreciate this person and you know I’m not ready to be in this kind of relationship right now like, so, it’s a both-and rather than a, I think our minds tend to divide things up and like put one thing against the other.

Dr. Kim: And actually, I think that if you were to ask me at this moment; what the book is about, what the formulas are about, what the movement is about. It’s literally about that I mean to me everything came from the Dao or the universe. That’s one way of looking at it and from the Dao or the universe came the yin yang right and so that’s a dichotomy in and of itself you have yin and you have yang and so I wonder if you see the same but I think it’s just kind of the way of humanity that naturally our brains want to find that black and that white and sometimes life is that way as far as I’m concerned. The things that are black and white but I love kind of going back to that root of that even that symbol there’s a reason behind that yin yang symbol which nowadays I feel like most people know what that is around the world you know to some extent and if you really that symbol which I actually speak on speak about in the book in Myung Sung you look at it almost looks like a fish that’s one way of describing it that black and that white you know that the yin and the young which represent the dichotomies of everything in the world are together and they’re always changing and always transforming and that’s the difference so black and white exists you know one thing or another that dichotomy of the universe of everything but they’re always together and how do you balance that and I that’s what I hear you’re saying that and I think that’s beautiful, you know.

Julian Royce: Absolutely.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: Yeah, I think the, yeah, yin yang symbols obviously become so well-known and that speaks to this idea of balance which is one way that we could define health, right.

Dr. Kim: Very much a way of life, I mean like I said I think that if I really had to describe what Myung Sung is. Myung Sung the Korean art of living meditation, it is all about balance but I also feel like we say that word a lot and so I love to sometimes take a moment you know balance everything’s bad but what do we even mean let’s stop for a second think about that what does that mean to me how do I apply that to my life you know that’s one thing I’m grateful to my mentor and he spent a lot and my father my father is my mentor you know and you’ll see that in the book sometimes in my mind of course it comes to both my father and my mentor my teacher as well you know as has been passed on my lineage but one of the most important things is you know these principles that have existed for you know we say ninth generation because it’s nice to have you know some kind of time frame but the truth is Julian these principles go back who knows how long you know then it said it’s the one thing I’m grateful for and what my wishes make them applicable right so we have all these incredible philosophies and principles from all different cultures and times but sometimes I have found and I’ve seen whether it’s through patients or clients or speaking around the world that sometimes it’s hard for people to apply them you know it sounds great you hear some of the awesome thought leaders who constantly inspire me but you hear them and it sounds wonderful but then when you step away from that podcast you step away from that event you know you step away from that post how do you actually apply it to your daily life and that’s what I really wish to do you know. To empower ourselves do that.

Julian Royce: Yeah, that’s so that’s so important I think we don’t have to spend a lot of time at this point but it’s that quality of all these things coming together like it makes me think of like uh integrating.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: There was this movement called the integral movement, was trying to do that and but you know regardless of any specific movement or person and even though we often look at the world and see things as all the conflicts and all the problems and east versus west or this versus that. At the same time sometimes it almost seems to me like underneath the surface all these ideas are coming together and all these things are happening and people are making all these connections and like the yin yang symbol for example like that’s everywhere or the image of the buddha that’s everywhere or western medicine that’s basically everywhere I mean to some degree or another all these technologies and cultures we are all having you know we’re in the middle of it and you need to have that perspective that in the bigger point of view like things are coming together and we are drawing on all these sources of wisdom now so like when I think about it like that I feel really hopeful.

Dr. Kim: Right. You’re literally taking thoughts and words out of my mind I feel exactly the same you know that’s my experience as well which is one of the reasons, I feel so moved to be able to share this perspective if you will you know. I really feel that too Julian and I’m so happy to hear you and I hear a lot of people speak that way that you know like we kind of mentioned before life naturally often will want to divide to some extent I think just our realities will do that whatever reason I’m not trying to figure that all out no but if we at least not right now but if we all can kind of at least take a moment to realize that everything really can come to the same root you know no matter who we are what race gender you know our ethnicity nationality no matter now or thousands of years ago hundreds of years ago we’re all human you know and why can’t we sometimes just stop and remember that versus all of our differences and to some that might seem super idealistic but why can’t we are it you know if we moment to do that would we treat each other that much more kindly would we be that much more aware, you know. So…

Julian Royce: Yeah.

Dr. Kim: It does.

Julian Royce: Yeah, just getting reminded of that, you know, oh yeah, it’s a reminder and then carry that forth even for a moment or two makes it does make a difference and then I mean as a I think a great example of what we’re talking about is something like meditation and mindfulness and how it really was not very long ago at all that you know mainstream scientists and you know so-called serious people would kind of look down or look at scans at that perhaps it wasn’t you know so it wasn’t 30 years ago it wasn’t really being studied but now it’s like there’s thousands and thousands of studies on mindfulness and meditation and now it’s getting to the point that I’m really excited about they’re not just studying quote unquote meditation there’s we’re starting to do studies on specific types of meditation for specific types of people and issues and environments and so I think that’s just a huge change that’s happening in our world that we can work with our mind in certain ways or work with our mind and body and yeah if you want to speak to that because in your book you’re speaking about a new to me is a new kind of meditation.

Dr. Kim: Right, right. Absolutely. Yes, well said, right 30 years ago we’d be I don’t know how people would even take this conversation right now. Right Julian, let’s be honest you know and now it’s like the hottest thing and I’m so grateful that it’s the hottest thing you know and you’re right so it’s very purposeful that I call it living meditation you know in fact that is what I originally in my mind no matter what before I even was able to you know come together with my amazing publisher that was that was kind of the book title was a living meditation some way shape or form and then they were brilliant enough to incorporate in Myung Sung which for all who do not know it’s translated as meditation so that’s what young says there’s different translations of course in Asian characters but it’s translated as meditation and so living meditation is important to me kind of we’ve summed up the main the main points which certainly we’ll dive into a little bit more but living meditation I heard you say it a couple minutes ago why can’t we take these this principle this understanding balance this understanding of togetherness root you know all of these principles if you well and when I say principle what I mean by that one way of explaining it would be like a universal truth so no matter who we are no matter where we are no matter where we come from the kind of truths in the universe that just won’t change you know and that’s not always easy to come by but I think it’s important to remember because it kind of helps us decipher what is truly important and what is detail right and so when you kind of look at that picture now I’ll move forward living meditation so there are so many different kind of meditations and I agree with you just like medicine we have so many options how amazing you know but it’s good to know how to use them another thing that I think of and why I came to living meditation is this is my question and like I kind of said before I see so many amazing people out there so many and I truly respect our thought leaders our teachers out there and I see them passing incredible practices and ways of thinking and mindfulness and mindset but then it hit me I wonder how often and this is what it has meant most to me would have been passed down for centuries is why do we have to wait if you will to sit down for meditation right whether that’s 15 minutes whether that’s hours whether that’s days for some you know why do we have to sit down for that moment to become aware to quiet our mind to basically reflect check ourselves if you will and then rebalance our mind body that connection all of the above why can’t that be part of our everyday life because there are ways to do that and the habits that we do changing our perspective realizing that no matter what reality we are in no matter what happens around us we truly can make choices and we truly are in charge of our own life and that’s where living meditation comes from instead of waiting for the moments that we sit which I’m certainly a huge proponent of any kind of practice or meditation start to apply those very things to every moment of your life and it sounds it can almost sound daunting or it can sound wonderful depending on how you feel about it in the moment but basically it’s just constantly checking yourself being aware. I almost say it’s like tidying up on the inside right so we were to walk into a room and it was completely disorganized and dirty everywhere whether you choose to clean it or not most people would agree this room was a little disorganized you know no matter whether they wanted to admit it or not most people would agree but how often do we do that inside right and so it’s not that we become perfect there’s no such thing as far as I’m concerned but it’s constantly watching ourselves putting ourselves in other people’s shoes you know really getting to know who we are and what’s important and grounding ourselves in that so.

Julian Royce: Yeah.

Dr. Kim: Very short.

Julian Royce: That’s beautiful. I think it’s such an important message, and I think the way you’re speaking to it comes out you know it strikes me a little bit differently for some reason which is good but that we can apply these things in every moment and like I’ve heard that or some version of that so many times and yet it’s true like they’re like when I said meditate you know it’s like okay that’s what I’m doing and then it’s sometimes in myself like it almost feels like something is like am I allowed to be mindful right now like if everyone else around me doesn’t seem like they are and of course like I feel silly saying that but there’s something about it that you know it’s like um it’s a muscle and it’s good to keep coming back to it and it’s also good not to try to always be doing something if you like to have that balance because I think ultimately mindfulness should become like a natural flow like our natural state we talk about the Buddhist tradition a lot.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: And so, we kind of keep at least in my experience you kind of keep aiming at that and you kind of keep missing and you kind of keep coming back and going in and out and maybe one day it will be this continuous thing.

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. That to me, isn’t that enlightenment or awakening you know the words that we I think many of us well whatever degree strive for and again it’s that striving it’s that action which okay I think we can all come to agree that that might be part of it but I agree with you and you said it exactly that’s what it’s about as far as I’m concerned and how it’s been passed down is that it is a constant cycle and that’s why the word that I find resonates with people as it becomes almost like a habit a habit to start doing this that’s why the book is even broken down into eight keys you know that I mean called chapters keys just because I sounded like it kind of unlocks certain doors to our freedom our life who we are you know it doesn’t change the fact that you know what sometimes life is really challenging and I’m happy to I’m stand here with everyone and admit that you know the truth I wouldn’t really kind of um how can I say tangible if you will very realistic you know moment that it hit me this understanding of living meditation is you know I’m a mom I run multiple businesses you know I have two young children I’m very close to my family you know. The last couple of years or throughout my whole life there’s always been ups and downs and that’s where that’s where it really hit me so much exactly when I’m not sure you know definitely in the last my son my oldest son is now eight years old and I started thinking about these things at that time you know because it can be really difficult and for example I found you know it doesn’t seem productive to me or doesn’t seem correct if you will that sitting down to meditate now has become a stressful thing you know and I find that so often and I think it’s natural because we care so we want to be able to do these things and certainly like I said I think it’s very important to find time to do these things even if it’s 15 minutes for me that’s a very big reality in my life you know at this point in my life sometimes I only have 15 minutes you know and sometimes I even have to break that up but knowing that I can have control over taking those moments and what’s important to me in a different manner you know not when you sit down to meditate whatever practice you follow there’s certain protocols if you will you know I think that’s a way that we can kind of put it in our mind but you’re right it kind of that natural flow no matter which way how do you resonate how do you connect how do you calm yourself how do you become aware and so yes being able to bring that into a daily life as a business owner as a wife as a daughter as a friend especially as a parent you know how can we utilize what we are achieving sitting down through every situation in our life and that’s exactly I what I wish Julian.

Julian Royce: It’s beautiful.

Dr. Kim: Practice and share to the best of my ability. Yeah.

Julian Royce: Too like being mindful in the moment in your life like as a parent with your business like these are all different situations and the kind of underlying qualities of mindfulness you know we can talk about as being the same that we’re trying to open up to but the reality is different situations ask for demand different responses and things I noticed in your book was like that mindfulness has a way to make the right choice to make good choices and you talk about that like planting good seeds like doing the right thing it sounds you know kind of like what we all hear as a kid and then we kind of maybe forget about it or whatever but…

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: I think that’s an important point. That is sometimes lost in when people talk about mindfulness like actually like how do we make good choices like and then I guess I mean the other part of my question is just this idea of like non-duality like ultimately like with the yin yang symbol ultimately you know good and bad maybe your human constructs or they’re relative or they’re you know not ultimately true perhaps but I think that can be tricky it can be tricky for people to if they tune into that kind of understanding and just being okay with everything um it can actually make it more difficult to make the right choice at that moment for you, you know in that situation in that particular set of circumstances like do you want to speak to that a little bit

Dr. Kim: Absolutely so that’s exactly correct first let’s just start with I think that by nature our minds our brains maybe I’ll use the word brain, you know wants to find solutions and answers you know that’s just part of life I think that’s fine I don’t even have a good comment or a judgment on that but by doing so we want to have we want to memorize things right and that’s you mentioned before I also um grew up you know that’s a whole other conversation of you know spirituality and religion haven’t played in my life I feel very close to all that can be another podcast but certainly in the Buddhist manner as you said it’s more of a how can I say like a connection to and an openness and an aware being aware right and so.

Julian Royce: Right.

Dr. Kim: I didn’t want to get; I don’t want to get off tandem Julian what is that ask me the exact question because I don’t want to go too far off without you, I guess just brought up.

Julian Royce: It’s, it’s kind of a… a challenging question perhaps but just that.

Dr. Kim: New Zealand.

Julian Royce: Yeah. Can you hear me?

Dr. Kim: Yes. Now I can the delay for a second so I also want to make sure I heard you, go ahead.

Julian Royce: Just that.

Dr. Kim: It’s the changing of perspective the true, right…

Julian Royce: I guess… I guess… I guess the question could be if you have if you’re influenced by ideas, like non-duality and being beyond good and evil so to speak or that we could be open up to this pure awareness in any moment right and then in some sense in the path of meditation we can tune into this idea that can then become an experience that all experiences are equal and just in being experiences right that we’re sensitive and um that mindfulness can cultivate you know it can be a big part of the path of meditation but then the question of like how do you know what to do how do you make choices and I think.

Dr. Kim: Thank you.

Julian Royce: Yeah. My own life and the people I work with, that’s often challenging and I wonder sometimes if getting really into meditation can almost make that more challenging because I think in the past like people that were serious meditators so to speak, they weren’t running two businesses and raising two kids and flying all around the world and appearing on podcasts.

Dr. Kim: Yes, absolutely. Okay, I appreciate that that’s the part I wanted to catch so as I was speaking on sometimes we look to kind of memorize different like solutions to things if this happens I want to act like this from now on or today I’m not going to do this anymore or from now on my favorite I’m not going to be like this anymore well sometimes when I hear that you know again I hope hopefully it doesn’t come off too direct but good luck you know that’s we could all do that we’d all be exactly where we want to be all the time we set ourselves up and it can be very challenging to do that we set a certain expectation that we have to start to remember if I may that it takes habits to get there you know and if we keep setting ourselves up from now on I’m not going to get angry anymore at this well your whole life you maybe you’ve created this habit so now look at it that now I have to uncreate this habit or create a different or a better habit and so I guess one of the points and it is key to is called the true right and correct method and I think that speaks exactly what to what you’re I talking about and I think one of the most important things to think of is every single situation is different you know that’s the truth even with the same people the situation can be so different you know and so if we look at every situation and take one moment literally and no one even has to know about it to take a breath and what I love to say is zoom out just zoom out for a second change your perspective if you change your perspective you can literally change your life and what I mean by that and what I call the true right and correct method means true means and is defined as what is true to you in a given situation this is where I find you know in this day and age I see a lot of this I think most of us could agree that a lot of it comes from this is what I think it’s always iii this is what I think this is how I feel and certainly that’s important you know to take into consideration but then if you have that true plus if you will the right and then the book it’ll, it’ll you’ll literally visually it will be able to see it this way the right is defined as what’s right for everybody involved so now you’ve looked at yourself in the true and you look at everyone else around you in the right maybe that’s one person maybe that’s a whole community maybe that’s literally you with nature you know whatever that might be look at now change your perspective zoom out for a second where are they standing and now if you kind of take both of those things into consideration you arrive at the correct choice for the correct decision and so it can seem uh you know my hope is that that does give all of us as human beings with brains you know some kind of a linear equation because I know people really like that by nature you know there’s an answer but the funny thing is in that answer comes you know infinite possibilities but if we know that we have the choice and we have the power to look at the situation have more clear vision of ourself this is what I like okay fine you know I really like steak at a restaurant Julian and then you and I go out to lunch together right and I tell you the steak is the very best you have to get the steak you know okay well that sounds great but I don’t even eat meat right I really would prefer to have this vegetable dish you know that’s it sounds funny but that’s a lot of times how life works well it probably would be correct for me to zoom out for a second and realize even though I love steak doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to love steak and I should consider that you know in this in this moment in time together it just helps you to see things differently and again you’re totally correct in business world I run my manufacturing labs with my husband we very much practice this together in business and in life we very much practice with our team this happens so often relationships with family something I’ve seen particularly in the last year and a half that we’ve all walked through you know you hear that a lot I’m sure you too Julian a lot of different tensions that can arise in family you know just stopping for a second and realizing you know there might be another perspective than mine you know and maybe it’s worth it just to hear doesn’t mean you have to absorb it all but just here for a second especially when it comes to family and then you arrive at your decision what you’re going to do.

Julian Royce: I like that’s helpful. Thank you.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: True. Right, and correct and then I mean part of what you’re speaking to there with the right is taking other people’s points of view looking at the bigger picture it’s not all just about you and your truth which I think could be a shadow side of some of the self-help you know the spiritual scene.

Dr. Kim: Very much, you always I feel like by doing so kind of at the core of it all you connect to something greater than yourself which is what I think is whatever that means to get to someone you know I think that to me very much is a strength that I’m constantly rooted in you know so that’s another aspect that I don’t always share but certainly with you I feel that’s right.

Julian Royce: That’s beautiful well I mean on that note connecting to something bigger than yourself like, you kind of use the word universe earlier or the doubt.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: Do you want to speak to that a little bit? Like…

Dr. Kim: Absolutely. Maybe the best way is to speak in my, my experience. You know we don’t always turn there but I think it’s probably a place to start you know I feel very deeply that you know there’s so many ups and downs that we can walk through in this life and one thing I have found personally and I’ve certainly seen in others but speaking on my experience if I did not have a route to something greater than me you know what quite frankly life would just be very almost too challenging at times you know it becomes hard almost and so but to know for myself the way I can explain it to know that I’m connected to something so much greater a higher power if you will God if you will whatever that means the universe the Tao you know whatever that means something greater than you to get to Tao know that you are connected in such a way to everything that came before you everything that is going to come ahead of you it just gives you a once again a different perspective on things you know um I will often say for myself knowing even the connection to my lineage which I speak on that but quite frankly every single one of us has that connection to all of those who came before us the reason why we stand here today whether that’s spiritual or whether that’s scientific, you know, yes from people before us and so we’re connected in some way shape or form and everything that we do right now in some way shape or form is going to make a difference for the future you know I’m in fact that’s one of the keys also you know leaving behind a good legacy leaving behind good seeds you know one day when we don’t exist on this world again regardless of your beliefs what have you left here and it doesn’t have to be something my point is not you have to you know change the world you know in some grand scale but maybe just being a kind person maybe being a really great son a great daughter maybe being a good parent or just being a kind person who who’s you know does good things that’s all going to leave a kind of wavelength kind of energy behind, so yeah.

Julian Royce: You speak to that you know and I feel like there’s nothing you just said that’s not scientific in a sense like we are you know we literally are connected with these bigger systems and then to bring in the past and future you know like so influenced by the past all the something that I’ve done sometimes that can be really powerful is to just like look around the world and feel gratitude for all the work that went into the world that we have like I’m talking to you on a computer through the internet like I didn’t build those things myself.

Dr. Kim:  Right

Julian Royce: Like. I’m going to open up my fridge and get food that you know came from somewhere else and someone a lot of people worked really hard to make all that happen and um it’s for some weird reason easy to lose touch with that and feel like we’re this isolated individual floating in the cosmos and like nothing matters and kind of take everything for granted and we forget about the thousands of years of actual like history like people literally dying to create the world that we have like I think that’s a powerful perspective that can help kind of be an antidote to some of our modern suffering of feelings of alienation.

Dr. Kim: And especially if I may say in the past year and a half again I, given your practice and what you do in your life Julian, face of my understanding which I think is amazing certainly I’ve seen it too never before have I seen so many people step forward in some way shape or form you know expressing that you know they can be the kindest people I who do great things but especially after this last year and a half where things truly were isolated it’s hard for people to I’m watching it’s hard to reconnect you know and that’s where I really one of the reasons I really kind of put the gas on accelerated and really wish to have this you know book come out this these principles come out hopefully to give some kind of health help and positivity toward that but that connection is what I’m basically saying Julian absolutely because if you keep looking for it outside it’s very difficult it’s a difficult road because now everything depends on what’s happening to you right and so you’re you’ve lost complete control or empowerment over yourself you know that’s hard to get by looking outwards you know because it’s never going to be solid but if we can even remember which sure might seem much easier said than done when you when I first say this but you have everything all the power has to come from within and again I think that any ancient philosophies principles east west it makes no difference at all it’s kind of you really look closely and I move away the detail it all comes from that it all comes from within and then what you’re going to do with that how are you going to let something affect you. In fact, one of my favorite visualizations I actually think that the eighth chapter or eight key of the book is, be like bamboo right which is like we have you flexible in this life but we have to be rooted you know there’s that there’s the saying go with the flow which I use often actually but I actually think it goes one step deeper it’s good to go with the flow because that is literally life and if you can’t do that’s why I say bamboo you have to be flexible because if you’re too hard too stiff which I feel like is very common in our modern world you know to really just stand by something and not budge you can break just like a stiff board you know but if you’re flexible you can kind of go with the storms and the winds but also important is you have to be rooted in something right.

Julian Royce: Yeah. That’s a beautiful metaphor.

Dr. Kim: Anchors us.

Julian Royce: In terms of your, I love your three m’s so meditation medicine, and movement.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: Do you want to speak to that? I mean this inner connection and just made me think about obviously like in Buddhism we talk about body speech and mind which is really body energy or body and like our I guess the word energy I don’t really like that word but that you know it could be emotions could be in there too right that right and how interconnected all these things are.

Dr. Kim: Oh, very much so. And so certainly you can kind of take a zoom out a second my favorite thing and that’s where the medicine movement meditation comes from so medicine is certainly you know particularly I can speak a little more tangible or we can all visualize together to me medicine can be very specific it’s herbal medicine that’s passed out of my lineage that is a huge part of my life in the manufacturing labs for example you know one of the reasons I committed myself to sharing these formulas because I know how much they change our life it’s a part of our life so these three m’s to me basically if we’re able to incorporate those let’s say into our daily life in some kind of practice or awareness that’s how we can have happiness, longevity, peace all of the above so when it comes to medicine for example the herbal formulas that you know I hope to share with the world as many as possible they help to rebalance our condition physical and mental to be honest right so that aspect is helping us to rebalance our condition then we have movement which is a huge part of living a very healthy lifestyle right movement when I say that I literally mean movement you know whether that our yoga practice I study traditional martial arts you know which could I equal qigong, tai chi you know um it could be weightlifting you know I I’m a firm I’m a strong opponent if you will uh you know I enjoy doing all these things too you know physical activity especially in my twenties but I do think that’s important to incorporate some kind of practice that that strengthens our internal condition as well not just our physical strength it’s great to look good and I know it can be important but I think that’s an important piece of that movement that building internal and external strength meaning improving our organ systems even you know our circulation in different movements that we do so that’s the movement aspect because basically it moves r as you said energy I’ll call it Qi you know flow is so important in the world and our life around us things constantly have to be flowing right and that is the that’s the secret a lot of times in the medicine aspect of my life people ask me Dr. Kim what’s that what’s the secret of youth you know what’s the secret of health and I truly can almost break it down to you have to nourish your body you have to have enough inside supplement yourself and everything has to flow you know and you have to be able there’s three topics again there’s that three right like you talked about Buddhism you know head middle stomach you know sky earth human everything can be those three hence the three pillars right but um it’s very important to be able to not to go too far off but it’s very important to be able to balance those things right so now we have our medicine aspect balances our whole condition movement which helps to like I said nourish the body as well but also have that free flow chi which can be applied even to our life and then finally meditation finally certainly not like I said meditation to me is more of a philosophy and a lifestyle but because it is living meditation. I thought you know that’s just beautiful and it makes so much sense because what is a meditation you know Julian, why do you? Is meditation such a big part of your life and I certainly don’t mean to turn the tables inspired, but why do you, why do you practice meditation why is it important to you?

Julian Royce: That’s like that’s a good question.

Dr. Kim: I mean I get asked this too, and I think it’s different all the time, you know but…

Julian Royce: Yeah. I think there’s you know different ways I could I could answer it or think about it but um one way you could look at it like from the point of view of psychology is like regulation like finding this sense of balance and regulation within ourselves to be able to do that on your own and then be able to connect more deeply with other people hopefully as a result of that I think there’s other reasons too like to have insight into the nature of mind to have you know insight into the how things are to see things more clearly um to like develop concentration you know like things like that um but like for me now in my life it’s often it’s just it’s become quite habitual for better words and so it just feels like part of who I am and part of what I do um but yeah I think it’s like it’s a kind of it’s like a little ritual like having a little ritual that you do that when through repetition like it I that sense of grounding it helps me feel grounded and reminds me who I am like what I’m doing sense of purpose that kind of thing.

Dr. Kim: Yeah. Wow beautifully put! Like I said I… I knew there was a reason I wanted to ask you that Julian and so when you look at that that is your way to express and communicate what meditation means to you and that’s I what it means to me too you know and so we even when we talk of meditation that’s what I kind of mentioned a little bit ago these words that we say these practices that we do to even stop for a second like we just did and really think about this is what it means to me you know right there I feel like it puts that much more purpose intention habit practice into exactly why we’re even doing it and that’s why I chose to call the third, the 3 m’s meditation of course it worked out beautifully because it’s living meditation I can you know kind of sum it all up because it was hard for people to understand how can I’ll be real transparent people were asking how can Dr Kim do medicine movement and philosophy it seems like a lot and I got that you’re right that that does seem like a lot you know I can take myself out and look at it for a second but it hit me and I spoke to my team I feel like if everyone understood it came from the same root then it’s that much more understandable that I’m not just trying to be you know the jack of all trades here but to me right so important to me how I’m else could it be it’s a funny thing where people might ask how can one person do all that to me how can you not because if you don’t have medicine if you don’t have movement and as we just defined meditation to me let’s call it more of a lifestyle philosophy even the word philosophy what does that even mean to me in my life right now you know we can all come up with something but it’s about mindfulness it’s not lifestyle it’s habits that’s what meditation can mean and usually when I hear people speak on meditation that’s in some way shape or form and maybe in different words that’s exactly what it means to them you know it’s part of our life and how do we balance this actually you said something um just a bit ago which I think of often and certainly relates to the book and my mentor my father you know he studied in the mountains of east Asia for seven years of his life from the age of seven to fourteen you know.

Julian Royce: In the book…

Dr. Kim: I really appreciate that, Julian. That’s something like I… I don’t know if everyone knows this I said to you right before it began but you were one of the first to get that the official script you know and so that means so much to me and certainly is special to share this story because it’s not one that I’ve shared so often or have had you know hasn’t really come up yet but I think as an important point what you said is you know it’s one thing to meditate in the mountains you know a lot of times we can relate that in the east it’s much more common you know to be a monk in the mountains doesn’t mean you know as I’m sure you understand maybe not everybody knows but you can be a monk and then go on to live your life it’s a certain time of your life that you can practice or you can choose to continue for your whole life you know and there’s different challenges with both you know there’s one thing when you live in the mountains of east Asia you have to literally survive I say that when it was the herbal medicine part of my lineage you know I always like to take a moment to acknowledge that a lot of the my ancestors literally had to know how to use these herbs or they would they wouldn’t survive you know and that’s different a little different than our experience right now you know um so there’s a lot there’s a certain kind of challenges in how you apply your meditation your medicine and your movement when you’re in a mountain you know living and trying to survive versus here’s that word but it is true you know in some way and I’ll say it or right I don’t even see it’s hard to even do it now you apply that to reality like our daily life like you said for me it’s being a mom owning several businesses being close to my family you know having a strong team at the labs you know that there’s a different kind of challenge and so yeah, here’s the point.

Julian Royce: Yeah, yeah. I was going to mention the story of your father in the book. So at age seven he went to go live with a basically like a meditation master in the mountains right.

Dr. Kim: Yes, that’s right.

Julian Royce: It’s such a classic tale of the young boy or young man going and meeting the master and spending this period of time with them and learning and becoming part of this lineage and then later passing it on himself I think I think that like some people like really like long for that on some level and feel like they don’t have that in their life you know like this I mean um so it was beautiful to read about and hear about and then it just made me think about so many people that I work with who come from difficult or you know families that were separated the parents were divorced you they moved around a lot you go to different schools. You know but I mean just maybe that’s I don’t know if I that’s if I’m idolizing like that kind of model but I think that a lot of us kind of like we like think about that like huh like my life we have we can have mentors we can have teachers that are meaningful I mean that can still happen and I think that’s important but I guess what I’m saying is most of us don’t have that we have a lot of different teachers and a lot you know I don’t know if you wanted to speak to that part.

Dr. Kim: Yes, Julian. I certainly acknowledge that, and I very much I have utmost gratitude you know that’s one of the reasons why people will often say to me gosh Janelle or dry Kim you have so much passion behind and I hear it I say okay yes thank you I don’t even know how to respond but the bottom line is I cannot even express how every single moment that I am here every morning I wake up I’m so grateful to in this life you know. These are the things that have kind of come I’m into my life and how can I not share them you know we don’t necessarily here’s the thing one of the main reasons I kind of really accelerated having this book you know Julian and it wasn’t the easiest road I never imagined having an amazing publisher that I have and you know that’s a whole other conversation but five years ago almost going on six now my father passed away very suddenly. So that’s a huge part of this as well and you know I’m grateful to be sitting here and be able to explain or to commute to express that you know even though he’s not here anymore and then I hope I’m trying to kind of relate it to what you just said you know not everyone is able to have a teacher in that way and I get that I never take that for granted which is exactly what I’m sharing I want to share that story and so we can all connect to that you know but also I want to express that I… I too am here now with a mentor that no longer is physically here you know and oftentimes actually it’s a letter I wrote to my father you know soon after he passed away and I just started writing because I knew I had to I wanted to when I say that actually, I had to I… I mean that I did have to write this book you know and then what came out one of the things that came out that even I had to sit for a couple years and look at like does that even is that even appropriate. As I said you know in some ways I feel like I’ve learned more from you with you physically not being here kind of a crazy thing and what I mean by that is you know I didn’t get you know that’s a whole other story of my life but it’s not like I was able to be with my father for various reasons for you know for every single moment but certainly in my young adult life I almost like devoted my time to spending as much time as him as possible Julian this is certainly not something I’ve shared before but it’s like I just had this feeling I don’t know how to say it and I’m so grateful that I followed my gut because I was right I did not have all the time in the world you know I was 33 when my father passed you know and that’s right when I was ready as far as I’m concerned okay I’m really ready to go now. So going back to I feel like in some ways I’ve learned more from him when he isn’t physically here means I’m standing on my own two feet my teacher and my mentor the way I feel very strongly as I’m so connected to him connected in a way that I can’t even express because when he physically left I had to remain connected to him you know whatever that means to people you know to me that relates in Christianity to me that relates to Judaism to me that relates in Buddhism the way I understand you know or certainly just being connected to nature but keeping that connection and watching myself. Literally now I too practice like anyone who does not physically have a teacher around I practice understanding these principles to the best of my ability you know applying them and through that that’s how we can share it all because basically these words these words these stories my father certainly would say this and I speak for him these are not his words and stories his master I bodhran who you meet these are not his words you know obviously we incorporate our experiences and here I stand before you these are not my words my thoughts this is how I think the world should be these are things that have existed for centuries you know and I find each person myself now you Julian you’re part of this whole journey as far as I’m concerned alongside me of becoming aware that much more aware of a different perspective and principles and sharing it you know and how much how much more can we that’s key seven I suppose I can end this moment that we have together with one of my favorite things my mentor used to say and I certainly practice is it takes one match to light a thousand you know one positive thing truly can I light a thousand positive things you know one person whatever that means to you I do believe that and here we are doing it right now so.

Julian Royce: Yeah.

Dr. Kim: Yeah.

Julian Royce: That’s beautiful. That’s well said.

Dr. Kim: Oh, thank you, Julian.

Julian Royce: Appreciate you sharing that and yeah I guess just to like finish that part up like if you do have a longing for a mentor there are mentors out here and that even being able to open up to a sense of teacher or lineage or connection doesn’t always have to mean a physical, in the flesh all the time hanging out with them all the time and I think that’s important for people to hear and at least open up to that possibility because like you just said we all have our challenges and you know eventually we all die one way or the other, so yeah.

Dr. Kim: This is the truth thank you for asking that because that’s not something I get to speak on often I feel very I strong about that. Yes, you do not really mean because at the end of the day our teacher the greatest masters the greatest mentors the greatest teachers as far as I understand are ones who truly want you to make it your own and share it you know that’s exactly what and you just said it perfectly you know so I we can all do that it’s our choice yes.

Julian Royce: Well, do you want to share briefly with people any advice around in terms of the medicine. Like you know the world, the world of supplements is so big now like would you recommend people kind of doing their own research and trying out different medicines or would you recommend people go to see a doctor specifically trained with this kind of medicine?

Dr. Kim: That was a very good question Julian and one that we could spend a long time on. That I must speak on this but it’s a very good one because, on one hand, the wonderful thing is you know yes, our world, especially in the last few years, has kind of blown up with um a greater understanding of different kinds of medicines you know when you look at eastern medicine. For example obviously that’s my expertise if you will I’m always you know growing and learning but you know there’s certain ways you can incorporate certain herbal supplements and formulas into your life that helped to create longevity you know and so that’s a very important piece um one thing I’d leave maybe leave everyone I don’t know for coming to an end but one thing I is a key point that I certainly speak on around the world is that there’s so many options you always here, you can turn on the tv probably right now or turn on the radio or podcast here something else good for you hear know and that’s wonderful but hear my piece of advice is certainly that ingredient could be great for you but oftentimes it’s in the formulation which is really important you know so one ingredient can be so great for you but if it’s not formulated with properly like a perfect recipe basically they can’t get into your body and process properly it could do nothing for you or it can hardly be harmful you know and so that’s something to speak on a lot so I know that leads to the question okay well then how do I find that and really it does come down to nowadays trying to find companies um that you can trust that you know that they understand the formulation they’re not just jumping in you know to an industry simply just to become successful let’s say right you there are certainly um I know here in San Diego we have our whole foods and our pharmacists and our you know I can certainly speak on those that oftentimes if I’m not able to be with somebody or I’m you know give them the exact supplement to use I’ll say go to someone for example even nowadays we’re so lucky even in the body or healthcare departments and some of these like well-known stores they’re people who are very educated on this you know of course you can go to your doctor of course always open up to there might be different perspectives but at the end of the day you watch what you take don’t just listen to everything and put it in your body you know that’s the kind way to treat yourself understand what it’s for understand your condition a little bit further and I suppose Julian one of the most important things is you know just as we were speaking up with Myung Sung be aware of yourself it’s a funny thing be aware of yourself I have to catch myself with this all the time and it’s literally what I do because I’m a strong person I am healthy and some and I have so much to do I just keep going sometimes and sometimes I have to even check in wait for a second how do I actually feel right now you know you start to kind of even take a couple moments to feel how you feel you know I see so many different stories articles stories I just said that but written and you know on television for example where people will say, gosh, I felt so sick and I didn’t even notice or I felt so sick and no one could give me the answer but I had a feeling something’s wrong and they were perceived and they realized it so I think at the end of the day remember everything comes from inside of us I do want to kind of stay there everything so that even means when it comes to supplements if you start taking a supplement and it’s new into your regimen pay attention for a couple days. If all of a sudden, a week two weeks later you start feeling nauseous a lot you know or really tired you know stop and think, what did I incorporate recently that I may have thought was the greatest thing ever to because I read somewhere that this is the best thing for my health but if you’re taking that and a week or two later, you’re getting having fatigue your stomach isn’t feeling so great look back. For example, and realize oh shoot I just incorporated that thing that was supposed to be so great for me but maybe it’s not balanced for your condition you know and so that’s a kind of a long story short of certain things proper formulation do speak to someone who understands you know the certain aspects of supplements even skincare I speak on a lot you know that’s your biggest organ your skin. It matters what we put on ourselves right and be aware be aware of your own self so.

Julian Royce: Beautiful, well thanks I think that’s really helpful and practical too. There’s so many so much out there right now.

Dr. Kim: There’s so much, yes.

Julian Royce: Well thanks so much for those.

Dr. Kim: Who doesn’t know I formulate that’s what we do we manufacture formulator so people in all different industries kind of come to our lab just to give some background I realize I didn’t really come to our lab for us to formulate and manufacture almost all we based on whether they knew it or not it will be based on herbal medicine you know and so our products are carried in you know your high-end spas your Nordstrom’s Neon Marcus’s your you know your clinics so it’s kind of an all different industry so it’s out there.

Julian Royce: People get them from your website too.

Dr. Kim: You know that might be a possibility soon Julian. We’re always like behind the scenes but, but we’re certainly are trying to open the doors right now for what we call the private label, which means you can, you know, normally someone can’t really, unfortunately, I can’t stand it but I have to follow you know we can’t sustain otherwise usually people can’t come unless they have you know the minimum quantity of 5000 to be getting right for one product but now we’re opening the doors so someone if they wanted 25 products you know it can’t be custom but at least they’re open to some of the powerful formulas that I wish to share so that’s exciting for myself.

Julian Royce: Part of your message here is that the formula really matters it’s not about the specific ingredient.

Dr. Kim: Yes, it is about both right if you will it’s about both but just you know taking one strong ingredient does not always doesn’t always work in the body that way that’s herbal medicine is literally about that formulation you know has a role each plant doesn’t necessarily have herbal medicine but that’s how everything works so yeah.

Julian Royce: So traditionally it would be a doctor would make you a formula like specifically for the individual.

Dr. Kim: Right, right and so we kind of do that on a more general and a much larger scale you know I actually years ago when I finished school I had my master’s at the time not my doctorate you know my example, lab is called J.B.K Wellness Labs and sometimes people think I named it after myself which I think is ridiculous I did not name the lab after myself in fact you said it a little bit ago it was so funny when we talked about our ancestry or a linear direct connection but it’s named after my great grandpa you know J.B.K. So that’s what that it so for those who think I shared that that is our factoring lab and yes so that’s kind of what we what we do on a large scale as we take the herbal formulations as they traditionally would be prescribed if you will we have to make them more general if that makes sense. We up basically utilize those in our skincare and our supplements and our muscle joint formulas and our detoxification form you name it but that’s kind of the base of all of our formulas is that traditional just as I think you’re picturing in your mind um so we put them in huge kettles and make our formulas you know definitely all natural you know that’s beyond how we make our formulas but in a way that it can be shared with the world versus patient to doctor if you will which is a little more specific a little bit more a lot more specific so.

Julian Royce: Right. no yeah, that makes sense.

Dr. Kim: Yes.

Julian Royce: Well, wonderful. Well, are there any last words you want to share with us?

Dr. Kim: Well, I’m just so grateful to be here that was a wonderful moment. Thank you for the opportunities to share so many things that I have not yet joined so.

Julian Royce: Yeah.

Dr. Kim: That it’s, that it’s useful and applicable to anyone who hears that’s my greatest wish so well thanks.

Julian Royce: And your book again Myung Sung the Korean art of living meditation it’s coming out soon right.

Dr. Kim: So, it comes out January 2022, but pre-orders are available now and it’s through Watkins Penguin Random House. So, you can certainly if you want a place to find me is my website so it’s janellekim.com and actually right there in the home page you know you can basically be led to where you can purchase the book also, I’m really starting to focus on different seminars, medicine and in the meditation. That hopefully, I can start to do soon you’ll find a lot more information there and I really do try hard at this point to stay definitely on Instagram at least as well as Facebook and LinkedIn so mostly if anyone has questions that’s where you can find me.

Julian Royce: Yeah, I’ll put those in the show notes for everyone.

Dr. Kim: Yes so…

Julian Royce: Thanks so much.

Dr. Kim: Thank you, Julian I really appreciated our time together.

Julian Royce: Thank you so much for listening if you would like to learn more about my work as a psychotherapist, meditation, teacher, coach, public speaker, and all of that I have a brand-new website that I am excited to share it is a state of mind stateofmindcounseling.org and if you’d like to support this podcast, we do have a Patron page patron.com/stateofmind become a member, become a subscriber. Got some benefits coming out for you guys and another way to support the show is just to share it with friends, with family and post about it on your own social media accounts all those are great ways to support the show as well thank you so much and I will see you here next time.